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Wysłany: Pią 0:56, 19 Sty 2007
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marek s.
Wysłany: Czw 22:12, 13 Kwi 2006
Temat postu:
1. Papież Jan Paweł II był mistykiem, osobą porywającą ludzi samą swoją obecnością . Nieraz byłem wśród ludzi na mszy przez niego sprawowanej, wsród witających go na ulicach mieszkańców. I wszyscy byli podnieceni, rozemocjonowani. Emocje wywoływał jeden człowiek, samą swoją obecnością, ludzie kochali jego głos, a także niemą choćby obecność. Nie potrafię w racjonalny sposób wytlumaczyć tego fenomenu. Warto było przeżyć te chwile.
Nie mam moralnego prawa, żeby oceniać innych i mówic, że nie realizują w życiu słów Ojca Świętego. Trochę mnie denerwuje ta mantra( w wykonaniu wielu publicystów, księży), że Polacy nie umieją słuchać papieża. To się staje nudne. Przemiana dokonuje się w sercach, a ja znam tylko swoje serce. Poza tym, cchrześcijanstwo nie jest naiwną religią, podkreśla sie w nim przecież, że człowiek jest grzeszny. I wciąż grzeszy, wciąż popada w te same błędy, grzechy, ale dzięki temu człowiek jest czlowiekiem, że dąży, stara sie, choć nie zawsze mu to wychodzi. Znamienne, że najwieksi święci wiele razy musieli upadać (vide święty Piotr), zanim doszli do celu. Juz sama droga krzyzowa Jezusa niejako zapowiada upadki, w które obfituje życie człowieka. Warto więc zająć się sobą, a nie wirtualnym społeczeństwem, które nie słucha słów papieża. A te dni kiedy JPII był wśród nas warto było przeżyć.Nie twórzmy kolektywnego wzorca zachowań religijnych, do każdego bowiem Bóg dociera osobiście.Tak więc mniej naiwności, a więcej wiary! Ergo: Sursum corda! (to wcale nie jest banalne).
2. Mnie denerwuje nadmierne wykorzystywanie wizerunku Jana Pawła II do celów komercyjnych.Sytuacja, kiedy Jan Paweł II w jakichś kolorowych czasopismach sąsiaduje z gołą babą albo ze skandalizującą piosenkarką, jest niedopuszczalna. Wydaje mi sie, że w tej kwestii powinien reagować Episkopat.
Trochę też mi przeszkadza pewna wybiórczość w prezentowaniu postaci Jana Pawła II. Jest wiele wspaniałych homilii papieża, wiele ciekawych materiałów( piękny jest testament JP II, który w TVN 24 w rocznicę czytał Kolberger), a są rzadko prezentowane.Natomiast wg mnie zbyt często powtarzane jset (oczywiście ważne, piękne i prorockie): Niech Zstapi Duch Twój... Takie powtarzanie w kółko tego samego może doprowadzić do banalizacji jego przesłania.
3. Zupełnie nie moge zgodzić się z Kubą:
Cytat:
Dla nas zawsze był schorowanym starcem, na pewno człowiekiem osobistego heroizmu, ale nie na tyle aby stanowić drogowskaz.
Wybacz, ale dla mnie nie byl tylko schorowanym starcem, jego choroba byla dla mnie sprawą drugorzędną.
Jeśli chodzi o pokolenie JP II, to ja nie lubię haseł. Jeśli takie pokolenie istnieje, to składa się z osób w różnym wieku,w różnej sytuacji życiowej, osób o różnych poglądach politycznych,tak więc nikt nie może go sobie zawłaszczyć. dalej nie będę dyskuytował o pokoleniu JP II, bo nie lubię takich dyskusji. Oddajmy ludziom prawo do samookreślenia, do własnego wyboru. Niech sie kazdy zajmie pracą nad sobą, a nie tylko krytykuje innych. Mądrość ludowa mówi; Pilnuj siebie, a będziesz w niebie.
Breslauer
Wysłany: Czw 10:51, 13 Kwi 2006
Temat postu:
Nie mówię o masowej histerii i całorocznym użalaniu się, bo nie o to w tym wszystkim chodzi. Chodzi o to, żeby naukę papieża przenieść na dzień powszedni. Tego niestety nie widzę. O ile rok temu ludzie przez te parę dni byli sobie życzliwsi, to teraz niestety powróciła smutna rzeczywistoć, która nie różni się zbytnio od tej przed śmiercią papieżą.
Dodatkowo o ile dobrze rozumiem, termin pokolenie powinien obejmować wszystkich ludzi z danej grupy wiekowej. Wystarczy wyjść na ulicę posłuchać i popatrzeć jak owo pokolenie się zachowuje. Postać Jana Pawła II bynajmniej nie łączy.
Jeśli chodzi o Twojego kolegę to tylko pogratulować i życzyć wytrwałości. Z drugiej strony można przytoczyć przypadki ludzi, którzy podczas ostatniego roku przebyli odwrotną drogę i się styczyli.
Reasumując, na dzień dzisiejszy nie widzę pokolenia JPII (pomijam kwestię samej nazwy, która do mnie nie przemawia). Mam nadzieję, że to co wydarzyło się rok temu, może być zalążkiem do zbudowania czegoś wartościowego (czy pokolenia - nie wiem).
Grzesiek
Wysłany: Czw 10:14, 13 Kwi 2006
Temat postu:
Widzisz łukasz nie wiesz o co chodzi. na Dniach młodzieży nie było bezsensownego machania choragiewkami jak mają w zwyczaju robić polskie babcie i ludzie w srednim wieku na spotkaniach z papiezem. I o jaiej atmosferze Ty mówisz? znaczy sie ze co, do tej pory ludzie mają płakać i przesiadywać w kościołach? to chyba nie o to chodzi. to wszystko ma głłębszy, ukryty sens. Nie widzisz tego widocznie. zeby pokazac Ci przykłady przypomne Ci ile ludzi ruszyło rok temu w podróż do rzymu, czy wreszcie ile osób pojechało do kolonii. i pewnie wspomnisz ze duza cześć tych osób po prostu zrobiła sobie fajną wycieczkę - pewnie tak ale co to zmienia? innym przykladem może być mój kumpel z którym nie jedna flaszke obaliliśmy, nie jedną paczkę fajek spaliliśmy i w ogóle dużo sie działo. teraz jest w seminarium. uwierz mi ze bardziej bym sie Ciebie spodziewał w tym miejscu a jednak on. a wiesz dlaczego tam poszedł? bo zrozumiał o co chodziło JPII. i gwarantuje Ci ze to nie jest wyjątek. Wiec podumowując; nie mów ze nic nie zostało z atmosfery tamtych dni bo masowa histeria siłą rzeczy musiał sie kiedys skończyć. zostało duzo, bardzo dużo tylko nie kazdy to widzi.
Breslauer
Wysłany: Nie 23:05, 09 Kwi 2006
Temat postu:
Grzesiu, Dni Młodzieży Dniami Młodzieży, ale ile tamtej z tamtej atmosfery zostało na dni powszednie? To że ktoś raz do roku pomacha na takim spotkaniu chorągiewką nic nie znaczy.
Grzesiek
Wysłany: Nie 20:39, 09 Kwi 2006
Temat postu:
Oj kuba pozwole siez Tobanie zgodzic w kilku punktach:
1) Nie masz racji ze ktokolwiek chciałby zatańczyć na grobie papieza (poza oszołomami oczywiscie) a juz zwłaszcza radykalne odmiany jakichś religii. nie wierze ze nie zdajesz sobie sprawy z tego ze papiez cieszył sie wielkim szacunkiem w swiecie islamu i innych religii. Przede wszystkim dlatego, ze przeciwstawiał sie ateizacji i relatywizmowi a wszelkie inne religie takzę z tym walczą. ponadto ekumenizm papieza był bardzo widoczny w czsie jego pontyfikatu.
2) Jan Paweł II cieszy sie nie rzadko wiekszym autorytetem wśród osób niewierzących niz udających katolików
3) medialne łzy? nie wiem o czym mówisz. moje były jak najbardziej szczere i ukrywane przed światem a znam mase ludzi którzy zgodzą sie ze mną.
4) dla wielu papiez był kimś wiecej niż tylko papiezem i nawet jezeli nie zyli lub nie zyją według jego zasad to jego śmierc wywarła na nich ogromne piętno.
5) mylisz sie jezeli uważasz ze JP2 nie był drogowskazem dla młodych. gdybys tylko widział twarze setek tysiecy ludzi obecnych na ubiegłorocznych Swiatowych Dniach Młodzieży w Kolonii. Ja też sam w to na początku nie wierzyłem ale teraz jestem pewnien ze oni przyjechali tam własnie dla niego. nie mówie ze wszycsy młodzi na świecie sie z tym zgadzają ale zdziwiłbyś sie gdybyś wiedział ile jednak takich ludzi jest dla których JP2 był kims najbliższy sercu.
Jestem w stanie zgodzić sie z Toba, ze wielu postrzega papieza raczej z perspektywy jego nart, kremówek itd ale to też nie jest reguła. tak myslą Ci którzy nie sa w stanie pojąc nauki JP2, no coż w końcu nie mówił rzeczy łatwych.
Jakub Bogucki
Wysłany: Nie 13:56, 09 Kwi 2006
Temat postu:
Dima,
Cytat:
rekolekcjom, które przeżywała wspólnie cały świat
jeśli już to wyłącznie katolicki świat, który niestety coraz bardziej się kurczy. Natomiast większość innych wyznań (zwłaszcza w swych bardziej fanatycznych odmianach) z chęcią pewnie zatańczyłaby na grobie Jana Pawła II. A i katolicki świat łyknął te rekolekcje chyba bez szczególnej namiętności. Medialny show, medialne łzy, a zostało z tego tyle w ludziach co z kariery Britney Spears. Nad tym należy boleć.
Pokolenie JPII uważam za fikcję. Jeśli już ktokolwiek miałby je stanowić, to z pewnością nie my, ale jak zauważył W. Cz. Łukasz (ze Strzelec) Stręk - to raczej nasi starzy, do których papież zwracał się jako młody i pełen życia. Dla nas zawsze był schorowanym starcem, na pewno człowiekiem osobistego heroizmu, ale nie na tyle aby stanowić drogowskaz. Dla naszych rodziców był Papieżem, który Wyszedł z Komunistycznego Bagna, aby je podeptać. A dla nas?? W naszym dzieciństwie nie było takich zagrożeń i takiej świadomości.
A co do mówienia o Papieżu. O Nim zawsze się mówiło i jeszcze długo będzie się mówić. Że na nartach jeździł, że dzieci głaskał, że na kajakch pływał, że na konklawe miał stare buty...
Ale to nie o to chodzi.
Bo ciągle (zwłaszcza my, Polacy) nie widzimy w Papieżu ojca Kościoła, mędrca, teologa czy filozofa, ale sportowca, Lolka z Wadowic, kumpla i poetę co daje nam obraz medialnego showmana. Dopóki Jan Paweł II będzie trwał w świadomości za kremówki i kajaki, a nie za
Redemptor hominis
i
Veritatis splendor
nie będzie pokolenia JPII.
Dima
Wysłany: Wto 11:34, 04 Kwi 2006
Temat postu: Jan Paweł II
I już minął rok po śmierci papieża Jana Pawła II. Czy coś się zmieniło w naszym życiu, czy coś sie zmienilo w Polsce dzieki rekolekcjom, które przeżywała wspólnie cały świat 2 kwietnia 2005 roku. I czy istnieje pokolenie JPII, czy to tylko koljny chwyt kultury masowej? Albo może zaczelismy mowić ( i tylko mowic, bo taka jest moda) o papiezu dopiero po jego śmierci?
Prosze pisac.
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